WM is redefining what it means to be green. In this episode, Jack McCullough interviews Devina Rankin, CFO of Waste Management, who delves into the company’s robust environmental initiatives, leadership values and the critical role of teamwork and innovation. Devina, one of the keynote speakers at the CFO Leadership Council’s Fall Conference in Dallas, discusses how Waste Management is evolving beyond traditional waste collection to focus on innovative environmental solutions and resource recovery. From breaking down complex financial strategies to inspiring stories of company culture, she offers unique insights into the challenges and opportunities facing the waste management industry and the CFO’s role in driving sustainable growth.
Listen by clicking below. The Q&A, lightly trimmed and edited for clarity, follows.
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Listen to the podcast here
Introduction
We have a fantastic guest. Devina Rankin is the CFO of WM, which some of you might know as Waste Management. It is certainly one of the most ubiquitous companies in the world, but it is also one that’s gone through an amazing transformation in recent years. Devina, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much, Jack. I’m happy to be here.
I’m thrilled to have you. Historically, it’s a company we all know, but as I was preparing for this interview, I learned so much about your new business model and transformation. I was wondering if you could share a little bit about the 10,000-foot level of your company with our readers.
It’s an exciting time to be at WM. Many people know our company because of a one-week event in Phoenix, Arizona, called the WM Phoenix Open. When you step back from that event and think about who we are and what we do, it is on a grand scale and an impact that we should all care about. It’s providing environmental solutions to each and every one of our communities across North America.
It’s an exciting time to think about not solid waste, taking garbage from to the curb and having it picked up and magically taken care of for all of us, but ensuring that we’re thinking about resource recovery, reducing the climate impact of the waste that we all generate and ensuring that we’re a responsible party in helping our customers think through all of that.
Devina’s Journey
Before we do, I’d love to learn about your early years. You went to college in Texas. Are you a native Texan?
I was born in Hawaii and lived in England because my dad was in the Air Force. I’m in a family that is proud to be in the military. Both my dad and my grandpa were in the Air Force. They had great careers and retired from the military. That does define a lot about me as an individual. If you think about the military, it’s discipline, hard work and commitment to service. All of those things have been fundamental to my background and to who I am. When my dad was ready to retire from the Air Force, we moved home to San Antonio, Texas. That’s where I lived from about ten to when I went to college at Texas A&M University.
It’s fair to say you’re a Texan at this point. It’s funny because I was thinking about this interview. I’ve always been told that within America, you and I, our regions, would have the most contrary accents. In Boston, we drop our Rs, and in Texas, you seem to exaggerate your Rs, but you don’t show much of an accent.
It comes out on certain special occasions, such as country music concerts.
I sometimes exaggerate it when I’m visiting. Texas is one place. They seem to laugh at my accent. When I say, “I can’t remember where I parked the car.” They find that hysterical. Did you have any brothers and sisters?
I have one sister, thick as thieves. We’re three years apart, but I would say almost traditional Gen X. We helped each other grow up in many ways because our parents were both exploring their careers. We’d come home together, cook dinner for each other, fight, laugh and all those good things. She’s a special part of my life. She’s a teacher and a coach. My parents’ one grandchild and only nephew are the center of our world. He’s pursuing his college education. It’s a great family and I’m appreciative of them.
That’s fantastic that you’ve got such a close relationship with your sister. At a young age, you studied business. That was a great decision that you made at 17 years old, but what was it that was appealing to the 17-year-old Devina about studying accounting and business?
I mentioned my dad had an Air Force career. I didn’t know what I was getting myself into. I didn’t know what I wanted to be when I grew up. When I think back on the thing that influenced me most, it was twofold. One is that I had a friend whose older brother had pursued an accounting degree. He got a good job out of college and was doing well for himself. That felt like it checked some boxes for me. That meant job opportunities meant seeing some growth and being able to move from Texas and pursue a career in other parts of the country, which seemed exciting.
The other was I took an accounting class in high school because of my friend’s older brother’s influence, and I did well at it. When something kind of clicks and you feel like you’re pretty good at it, you say, “This might work.” Those two things were the door opening. In many ways, the rest is history. It was the PPA program at Texas A&M University that made all the difference because it was the certainty of my career that drove it home for me.
I love your humility. You are good at accounting. I have a hunch. You are more than good at it, even as a teenager. I know a lot of young people aren’t going into the profession, but I’ve been in the workforce for many years. I’ve never been unemployed, having studied accounting. I wasn’t even all that good at it. It’s a great career. It’s more fun than young people realize. It’s more challenging, and few things can match the stability of an accounting career.
It’s the language of business. Many people use that phrase, but I don’t think it can be understated. What that means is that when you are fluent in the language, you can decide how you’re going to leverage that fundamental knowledge to unlock opportunities and pursue whatever you want to do in some way. Every business needs an accountant.
You finished up at Texas A&M and started your career at one of the big public accounting firms. You were there for a few years and came to WM. What did you learn from public accounting that maybe prepared you for the journey at WM?
I am grateful that I started my career at Arthur Anderson. At the time, I thought it was the premier firm in the world. It is sad it’s no longer with us. It was a great place for me to start my career, both from a network perspective and the professionals that I had the privilege of working with. I still know many of them. They were some of the best people I’ve ever met. I’m appreciative to have been part of that community.
They teach you many things about being a good professional, showing up on time, recognizing that what you wear to work says a lot about how people are going to embrace you and the impression they’re going to have about you, understanding the rewards that come from hard work and relationship building and network building. You can learn a lot from a client by sitting down and having a conversation with them.
That’s one of those things where I haven’t been in public accounting for a long time, but I do wonder if, in some ways, it’s a lost art because everything is done via email or chat these days. It paid many dividends for my career growth. I encourage young people to continue to pursue a start to an accounting profession within one of the firms because it’s the best place to start.
There’s no better learning opportunity. It’s not for everyone. I became a CPA, but I didn’t envision myself doing that for the remainder of my career. Looking back, I realize I learned so much during the three-year period. It was crazy. You’ve been with WM for several years as the company’s CFO. I don’t know if that was a decision to find a place, plant roots and build a legacy. What was that all about, and how did it lead to a quarter of a century of career?
Not quite, but close. I expect that it will be one day. It’s a great company with great people. It wasn’t intentional that I was going to find myself somewhere to plant, grow and bloom. That’s how things worked out. What’s kept me here is two things. It’s people and its opportunity. We’ll talk a lot over the course of this time together about all of the things that you should learn as a professional and what you should contribute.
It’s not an intentional plan. I came to a great company that I knew was stable. What I found is a place where the people are fantastic, and the opportunity to learn, grow and contribute is stellar. Those are the two things that have kept me here. I’m proud to be part of this organization, but I’m honored to have had the opportunity to serve this company, and I feel like it’s given me so much in return.
You’ve been almost a quarter of a century and several years as the CFO. Whether it is by design or not, you’re building an amazing legacy within the company.
It is a fantastic place to work. It’s about the people. We talk about people first at WM. It is a commitment that we make every day. When the people you work with are the salt of the earth, hardworking and working towards shared goals, it all makes it a lot of fun. We all spend so much time at work. You want to be sure that you’re having fun while doing it.
Lessons And Mentorship
That’s a great philosophy. In those years, I assume you’ve had some invaluable lessons along the way. What are some great learning opportunities you’ve experienced, and what are some mentors you’ve had along the way?
There are countless mentors. What is important is that we recognize that mentorship is about an investment of time. Time is our most precious gift. What that means is that people do care. They’re investing in you and making sure you make the most of it. The most important mentor I’ve had here at WM has been Cherie Rice. She was the treasurer when I was in accounting. She opened a door for me and allowed me to take a step across the treasury organization.
It did change the trajectory of my career. She taught me so much about being willing to expand your horizons beyond your degree and background and trusting yourself to grow. Jack Pope was a member of our board when I joined this company at 26 years old. His voice has been important and impactful to me from the beginning. The things I learned from him were you show up, you’re thoughtful and you’re engaged. He was a brilliant person.
We don’t get the benefit of that in our boardroom anymore. You have to embrace the time that you have with people so that you learn from their voices and experiences, even if they’re not directly impacting you. I learned that from him. My relationship with Jim Fish, our CEO, taught me to trust myself. Confidence in your capabilities can only take you so far, but you have to trust your own capabilities and contributions. He helped me to do that.
You stole one of my questions. I was going to ask you about that relationship with Jim. You’ve worked together. According to some people, there was even a survey about it by Accenture, the consulting firm. It’s the most important relationship in a company, or at least amongst the C-Suite. It sounds like you have a good, productive relationship.
Jim and I have been partners for several years. That doesn’t happen often. It speaks to the strength of our relationship. A lot of it has to do with mutual respect. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and his unique skills and abilities, but he also has a lot of respect for what I bring to the table. Mutual respect and a passion for the business and our people are fundamental to making sure that our relationship is sound. It is about partnership.
We also have a COO within our leadership team. We think of ourselves almost like a three-legged stool. Bringing the three of us together with some purpose to be sure that we are setting a clear direction for the organization is impactful. It’s all about trust, shared responsibility and ambition for driving the organization forward.
With a company as big as yours, you need that three-legged stool. I chuckled a little bit because we had a guest earlier. He also talked about the relationship of CEO, COO and CFO. He described it as the holy trinity. I don’t know if we want to leave that in.
I don’t know that I would go that far.
I’m sure you’re a talented group of people, but that might be pushing it a little bit. I know both of you on a personal level and WM. Giving back is important and something you’re committed to. I wanted to ask you about that. In your personal view, you already mentioned coming from a military family, but what’s it like at WM to do that?
I was sharing a story about the examples that we’ve had about WM giving back to communities. We do that every single day. The men and women on the front line of WM provide service to our communities, rain or shine, 365 days a year. They are superheroes in disguise. At our core, we give back to our communities.
When you think about what makes us special in hard times, who shows up? We are the definition of an essential service. When you think about how fundamentally our world’s changed with this thing called COVID, our team showed up each and every day, even though the world was in a little bit of disarray and trying to figure out what all of this meant.
One of the great things that we did as a leadership team was decide that not a member of the WM family should worry about whether or not they would have a job. We committed that there would be no job reductions during the COVID-19 pandemic. That indicates that giving back can be external, but it needs to be internal. What do you give to each other? It is a great representation of who we are and how much we care for each other.
Building A Team
I’m curious about within the context of F&A. What’s your philosophy on building a team? How do you go about recruitment, retention and upselling? I talk to a lot of CFOs. Those are the people who set the pie side or the talent side. That’s the biggest challenge they face.
It is a challenge, but it’s a privilege. Building a team is a lot of fun. What I would tell you is that putting people first makes it easier for us to attract great talent. You have to look for people who care about investing in others. The skills and capabilities are going to be table stakes, but in recruiting people and looking for people to join the team, they have to be a great cultural fit. That means being comfortable with giving of themselves for the benefit of the greater organization.
One of the other things that was brought to me early on in my career is a phrase that I use a lot. It’s that there are people in this world who bring you energy and people who drain your energy. You need to surround yourself with people who bring you energy. I try hard to look for energy givers when building the teams that I work with.
You also have to be willing to have humility in how you build your teams. What that means is building teams with people who are strong compliments to you and, in many ways, better versions of you. People try to look for carbon copies of themselves. It’s important that you bring humility to the table and think about how you build your team. You have to have people who are always intellectually curious and committed to learning.
It’s funny that it’s come up so often with guests. There are an awful lot of smart people in the world, but it’s the intellectually curious ones that you want to have on your team. It’s not enough to simply be smart. Technology is fundamentally changing how finance and accounting teams operate. What’s that like at WM?
The technology team here is great because they’ve evolved to ensure that they’re committing to a partnership with the business. Technology is not what I call a hammer looking for a nail. Technology is in service to the needs of the organization. We’ve come a long way in that regard. In terms of how we’re leveraging technology, it’s in many ways, whether it’s the needs of our customers or driving efficiency in the business. What we have to do is create the right framework for making technology investment decisions. There’s clarity around where we’re investing. We prioritize the right things. There’s intent behind what that investment will get us.
As a CFO, I’m ensuring that the return on investment is going to be worth the exercise. In many ways, that means there needs to be a pull from the organization for the investment that’s being made rather than something that the corporate office thinks will be a great addition to our toolkit. We’re thinking about how technology can be used to enable the organization and ensure that we’re addressing things where we have challenges, whether it’s customer-oriented challenges or our ability to serve and be a solution for those challenges.
Sustainability Focus
I’m glad this is being recorded because you’ve given about three or four quotes that I fully intend to steal. A hammer is looking for a nail. I love that. The company has gone through an amazing transformation from trash pickup to now a focus on sustainability and environmental stewardship, for lack of a better term. You are the sustainability partner of Major League Baseball. Tell us what that was like because it’s a big change. You were uniquely positioned to make that change.
What’s great is that sustainability is a conversation that’s happening across the globe, but significantly, in boardrooms and executive teams. Often, there’s not a strong connection between business purpose and the environmental responsibility that we all have. At WM, that’s different. For us, it’s fundamental to who we are and how we serve.
What we have been embracing is how we use that fundamental connection to rethink the service that we provide to our customers and our communities. Engaging in a circular economy, thinking about how the material can be repurposed and reused and reducing climate impact in driving our fleet by using CNG vehicles in place of diesel.
Even though EVs are something that we think could have even more of an impact on emissions in the long term, it’s not there yet, but we’re not going to wait for that solution to be viable. We’re going to have a CNG fleet that reduces emissions substantially. It’s thinking about environmental responsibility in all aspects of our business. That’s been such a fun part of our journey and mission. We’re always working for a sustainable tomorrow.
You wish every corporation would make that type of commitment, but here you are. You’re doing it. I want to ask because the strategic vision of the company has changed. In your role as CFO, you’re the only financial expert on the leadership team unless the COO, CEO or former CFO is. How do you make sure that the strategic visions align with the financial strategy and financial realities?
I’m lucky enough to have a CEO who was our CFO before he was CEO. He brings that mindset to the table. What’s important is that you manage what you measure. It doesn’t matter if you’re a finance professional or not. You can appreciate that as an operator. As the CFO, I show up in the sustainability conversations, helping us think through what are the things that we need to measure, report on and hold ourselves accountable to on a regular basis because that’s how you influence the activities of an organization. That’s the easiest place.
What’s also important is that to be sustainable, it can’t be environmentally beneficial. It has to be economically beneficial. Sometimes, those two things feel like they’re in conflict with one another. We have conversations about how to make sure that our customers will buy into this for the long term, not because they’re making a short-term commitment. We try and think about that day-to-day in our decision-making. The other thing we think about is scalability. Just because something can be done in small pieces doesn’t mean it can be done across North American communities. Scalability of decisions is often connected with the financial ramifications of decision-making.
I knew, at some point, I would get caught because I often ask the question about being the only financial expert. I know someone would have a CEO who’s a former CFO. I want to ask you a question, Devina. The tagline of this show is, “CFO is no longer record history. They make history.” I started my career several years before yours. It was a different perception of CFOs earlier in my career, but the best accountant would often become the CFO. That’s no longer the case now. You can’t become a CFO, certainly not in a company like yours, by being good with the numbers. How do you see the role of the CFO and financial leadership generally changing in the years ahead?
It’s all about business partnerships. It’s about forward being, forward-looking. One of the things that made the shift from an accounting-centric CFO to more of a broad business partner CFO is that accountants generally can be historical in nature rather than forward-looking. It’s not true that accountants can’t always also be forward-looking, but they have to be forward-looking to be successful in the CFO role. What’s important is learning from the past. You know how to grow into the future.
Impact Of Technology And AI
Forgive me for this question, Devina, but I’m legally required to ask you this question as a host. How do you see technology and gen AI impacting the role of the CFO and his or her teams?
We had a teaching session on this for our finance organization. What’s important is that we move with some caution and be thoughtful about how gen AI will be used. There are a lot of ways. Is automation meant to improve the cost and efficiency of the organization? Are there opportunities to innovate and do things in a new and different way? Is there a way to unlock knowledge trapped in the organization because none of us can consume data as quickly as the machines can?
Those are the places where we’re going to see some progress in organizations. The CFO’s role in all of that is our strong mind for governance and having the right foundational governance decision-making processes in place. We use AI with a commitment to the best outcomes, the best results and the right priorities. Think about your culture and what you are to your customers so that you are thoughtful in mitigating risk and thinking about stakeholder implications. Those are the things that have to come into play in striving for great cost reduction and innovation that gen AI can create for all of us in the way that we work.
I had never heard of Gen AI. One day, nobody heard of it, and the next day, all of us heard of it. I was in that category. I didn’t anticipate how transformational it would be. It feels like the internet back in the mid-1990s. We thought that was once in a lifetime. It turns out it’s twice in a lifetime.
It’s a lesson about the speed of change. We continue to see the speed of change accelerating in the workplace.
Personal Health And Leadership
Devina, I noticed that you shared your journey of surviving stage three uterine cancer on social media. I found your story incredibly inspiring. First of all, the fact that you survived was brave during the journey, but you were willing to share your story on LinkedIn, where you have thousands of followers. If you feel comfortable, I’d like it if you could share about the experience and how it influenced your perspective on leadership, your role at Waste Management, and your perspective on everything generally.
I’ll start by saying without a doubt that health and self-care are important. One of the things that we can often do as professionals is put that last, and we have to put it first. If you’ve not taken care of yourself, you can’t show up for others. The other thing that I learned is perspective. I’m able to put work into appropriate perspective these days in a healthy way. That’s been good for me and my team because they see an increasingly human and empathetic side of me, although those were strengths before.
I would advocate for people to recognize that everyone’s going through something and be kind to one another. You give people the space they need to be sure that they show up as their best selves at work every day. When I was going through treatment, I would tell you that WM was a safe place in a lot of ways because it was the one thing that still felt within my control.
Treatment does a lot of things to you, and it’s not a lot of fun, but this community of people that I get to work with every day gave me a lot of strength. I’m grateful to have been part of this organization at the time that I was going through it and be on the other side. It’s important that we share these stories because by sharing them, we give each other some strength when we’re going through tough times.
It’s admirable of you. Few executives, particularly one as visible as you are, are willing to talk about it publicly in the way that you have. It’s their decision. That’s fine. I have deep admiration for you for the fact that you did.
Thank you so much.
That brings up a question. I always wonder because I was a CFO never at a company anywhere near the size of yours, but it’s a hard job. I wasn’t all that good necessarily, the whole work-life balance thing. For you, it’s a huge company, plus you’re on the board of directors for a publicly traded company, and you’re giving back as you do. You’re a lecturer at Texas A&M. How is that possible with everything you have going on?
We make time for the things that matter. All of those things matter a whole lot to me. I also make time for my family and my home life, traveling, exploring new restaurants and doing fun things. It’s important to give yourself space for professional growth and development in many ways. When I was thinking about board service, I was thinking about a mutually beneficial relationship where I could give the value of my experience to another company and, in return, continue to grow as a professional.
As we have already discussed, I’ve been with the same company for several years. Sometimes, you can get insular when you’ve been in the same place for so long. I need to be sure that I’m stepping outside of my role with some purpose to be sure that I’m plugging into the world around us. That’s for the good of WM as much as it is for my own professional journey.
I get that in my board service at Key. When I think about lecturing at Texas A&M University, we talked earlier about mentors. I have to pay that forward. I have to help invest in future leaders. That’s one of the things that inspires and motivates me. It fills my cup. I get excited about the time I spend with those students because they inspire me. I know that our future is bright. It’s one of the things that fuels me at WM. It all comes back to making sure that we give ourselves the time and space to do things that make us happy and that matter.
One of the things I’m able to do through this show is change the perception of finance and accounting professionals. I’m wondering. Do you have a fun fact or an interesting hobby that you could share with the group?
One of the fun facts is that my wife and I are connected with an organization called NMDP. It’s the National Marrow Donor Program. It’s an important organization. It used to be called Be the Match. Our original connection happened because my wife gave a lifesaving bone marrow donation to a 13-year-old girl who had acute lymphoblastic leukemia. That 13-year-old girl is now a young lady who gave birth to a baby boy. None of that would’ve been possible without this organization. My fun fact is that in addition to all of the things that I get to do as a professional, I know that the life I lead outside of work is one of purpose.
That’s what a wonderful organization. I’m not the most emotional guy in the world, but you can go on YouTube and watch videos of people meeting their donors. If that doesn’t move you, you may not be fully human.
It was one of the most fabulous moments of our lives when we met Diana’s recipient.
I can only imagine that it would be. You’ve had a great career and are continuing so much that the next generation of financial leaders could learn from you. I’d like to conclude by asking if you have any advice for the next generation on things that they should be focusing on or whatever it is that comes to mind.
I sum it up in four words. Those four words are deliver, engage, care and inspire. What I mean by that is delivering has to be fundamental to who you are. It means setting clear, achievable goals, doing what you say you’re going to do, being accountable and engaging. What is important is stepping back and thinking about how you’re spending your time every day. Are you engaging in the things that matter to your organization? Are you volunteering to be part of special projects? Are you engaging in fun activities across the organization where you get to learn about things beyond your own scope? You are intentionally engaging in the organization more broadly than in your specific role.
With care, what is important is that WMs 48,000 are strong. If you don’t care about the 48,000, the team that you lead and the team that you’re a part of, you’re not in the right place. Find yourself somewhere where you care about the mission and the team. All of that should drive the results. I had a moment in my career where I started to think about the inspiration and where it should come from.
I recognize that, in many ways, I had a responsibility to be the leader that I wish I had. If I wasn’t working hard every day to be worthy of people feeling like they were investing in the right place because they were inspired by my leadership, I was falling short. I’m not sure that I necessarily live up to it all the time, but I work at it.
Closing
All we can do is work out the best. I’m going to change the order to make it easy for me to remember, but DICE is Deliver, Inspire, Care and Engage. Devina, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you for making the time. We get to do it again live in front of 300 or so CFOs in Dallas. For the moment, I’d love to give you the final word.
When I got this invitation, I didn’t think I could live up to the title because rockstar sure seems like something that most CFOs don’t think that they are. It’s been such a pleasure. Thank you for doing this not for me but for all of your readers. It is a service to the future of our profession and the good of our society because CFOs drive financial markets in a positive way. They’re an important part of building retirements and futures and sustaining homes and families. Thank you for the service that you give.
